Hillary Clilnton thought about campaigning on basic income

Jesse Walker has an interesting post up at Reason: Hillary Clinton considered making basic income one of her campaign proposals.  (This was an idea Robert Anton Wilson was interested in, hence the attention I pay to it here and in other posts.)

Clinton talks about it in her new memoir:

Before I ran for President, I read a book called With Liberty and Dividends for All: How to Save Our Middle Class When Jobs Don't Pay Enough, by Peter Barnes, which explored the idea of creating a new fund that would use revenue from shared national resources to pay a dividend to every citizen, much like how the Alaska Permanent Fund distributes the state's oil royalties every year. Shared national resources include oil and gas extracted from public lands and the public airwaves used by broadcasters and mobile phone companies, but that gets you only so far. If you view the nation's financial system as a shared resource, then you can start raising real money from things like a financial transactions tax. Same with the air we breathe and carbon pricing.

Once you capitalize the fund, you can provide every American with a modest basic income every year. Besides cash in people's pockets, it would also be a way of making every American feel more connected to our country and to one another—part of something bigger than ourselves. I was fascinated by this idea, as was my husband, and we spent weeks working with our policy team to see if it could be viable enough to include in my campaign. We would call it "Alaska for America." Unfortunately, we couldn't make the numbers work. To provide a meaningful dividend each year to every citizen, you'd have to raise enormous sums of money, and that would either mean a lot of new taxes or cannibalizing other important programs. We decided it was exciting but not realistic, and left it on the shelf. That was the responsible decision. I wonder now whether we should have thrown caution to the wind and embraced "Alaska for America" as a long-term goal and figured out the details later.

Walker comments: "The basic income has libertarian fans too, but in liberland "cannibalizing" other arms of the government is a feature, not a bug. You replace a bunch of separate bureaucracies with a single, simpler, less intrusive, and (if the numbers work out right) cheaper program. That's the big draw. I don't suppose it's news that Hillary Clinton isn't Milton Friedman, but it's telling that she saw this as a dealbreaker."

Should RAW join Heinlein in the libertarian encyclopedia?

 Robert Heinlein (Creative Commons photo via Wikipedia)

The Encyclopedia of Libertarianism, a project of the Cato Institute's Libertarianism.org, has been put online. Now everyone can read its entries on "John Stuart Mill," "Murray Rothbard," "Pornography," "Public Choice Economics" and on other individuals and issues.

The encyclopedia contains an entry on Robert Heinlein, one of RAW's favorite writers, and also a favorite of many other SF fans. The piece is written by Amy Sturgis, a libertarian scholar who has a Ph.D. in intellectual history.

There's no entry for Robert Anton Wilson, so I wrote to Aaron Ross Powell, director and editor at Libertarianism.org, asking if there would be new entries and if RAW could be considered. Powell made no commitments but told me that new entries were planned and explained that Jason Kuznicki is the editor of the encyclopedia and will be overseeing that. (I follow Kuznicki on Twitter).

I discovered the Illuminatus! trilogy in the 1970s in college, at about the same time that I learned that someone with my oddball set of beliefs, not fitting well on the usual left-right axis, was a "libertarian." Quite a few other people were making similar discoveries at the time.

Author Jeff Riggenbach, who has written a series of podcasts/articles on important figures in libertarianism, did one on Robert Anton Wilson. Here is a paragraph from that piece that captures Wilson's status as a libertarian figure:

... he became extremely well known. Nonetheless, he never let his fame go to his head. He continued to write for small, low-budget periodicals, including libertarian movement periodicals like Sam Konkin's New Libertarian, of which he was a contributing editor from sometime in the late 1970s through the 1980s.

He also showed up now and then at libertarian gatherings of various sizes and types. I still remember how startled I was one day in 1981, when I was chairing a panel on civil liberties at the national Libertarian Party convention in Denver. I had been chatting with my fellow panelists and letting them know how I'd be managing things, and I hadn't been paying much attention as the room filled up. So when, at last, I stood to make a few introductory remarks and looked out at the crowd that had gathered, I almost jumped out of my skin when I realized that the man sitting in the middle of the front row, virtually under my nose, was none other than Robert Anton Wilson, then in his late 40s and at the height of his fame.

Here is another bit of Heinlein news: SF critic Farah Mendlesohn has a crowdfund campaign going for a book on Heinlein. It's a good sign that Supergee recommends supporting the campaign.

German WW I submarine found with 23 bodies

Here's the link. Apparently this is real.

Hat tip, Michael Johnson. 

A RAW Halloween

Just wanted to share. Source.

Computers and pop culture -- was RAW there first?

 Timothy Leary

A comment on yesterday's computer chat post: The observation that computers are to modern popular culture what drugs were to the 1960s has, I thought, long been attributed to Timothy Leary. The quote that I've usually seen is "PC is the LSD of the 1990s," which in this Wikipedia article is attributed to a 1994 book, Chaos and Cyber Culture. 

So I was interested when I noticed that in the 1986 chat reprinted Monday, Robert Anton Wilson said that "electrons are the psychedelics of the 80s."

So was the observation from RAW first, and did Leary get it from him?

A 1986 online chat with Robert Anton Wilson

A Commodore 64 computer with a disk drive. If you didn't have a monitor, you could use a TV set as the monitor. 

[Here is a cultural artifact from the early days of the personal computer revolution, the 1980s, when people connected via bulletin board systems rather than the Internet. But this 1986 computer chat features Robert Anton Wilson. A note at the end of this says that chat took place using a Commodore 64 computer, which is a computer I used to use.

Richard Rasa passed on the link to me, along with a recent email from the source, Ralph Fucetola. Mr. Fucetola wrote, "During April 1986 Bob was visiting us in Morristown when an online chat was arranged. We used my Commodore 64 connected to an old vacuum tube monitor. No graphic interface, just the Turing purity of terminals and typing.  The transcript has been posted to various places, including the POEE site, but does not seem available there anymore. I found a copy of the transcript on on old hard drive and just posted it here: http://www.LifeSpirit.org/RAW-1986-chat.html -- enjoy!"

-- The Mgt.]

Robert Anton Wilson - Online Chat, April 1986

Originally Posted on Friday, February 09 @ 23:07:35 GMT to the POEE Web Site
Apparently-To: fnord-l@ubvm.bitnet
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.fnord-l
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1991 13:27:32 PST
From: Mike Morgan DTN 592-5565
Subject: Wilson on CI$
Location: LifeSpirit Parsonage, Morristown, NJ

-----------------------------------------------------

Found this on a FidoNet board...
[70310,273]
WILSON.CO 13-Apr-86(14-Apr-86) 30945 16
Keywords: ROBERT ANTON WILSON CO ILLUMINATI OCCULT ETC..
Online conference with Dr. Robert Anton Wilson, leading occultist and former movie critic for Playboy magazine

_____________________________________________________________________________

(Sysop Jim) OK, quiet peoples.

(Sysop Georgia) I present Dr. Robert Anton Wilson

(**Bob Wilson**) Cocaine is natures way of telling you the Vatican Bank

(**Bob Wilson**) needs your money more than you do

[READ MORE to continue...]

(Ben Rowe) Bob, since magick, and the cabala play such a role in your

(Ben Rowe) books, I'm curious to know just what you attitude towards

(Ben Rowe) such things is, here in the real(?) world. Could you state

(Ben Rowe) your feelings briefly?

(**Bob Wilson**) I regard majik and cabala as doorways to

(**Bob Wilson**) archeological levels of the human brain.

(Ben Rowe) Do you practice any form of it yourself?

(**Bob Wilson**) Yes.

(Ben Rowe) Care to say what kind?

(**Bob Wilson**) Ritual invocation, gematria.

(Avatar) To follow up on Bens question

(Avatar) Are you presently a member of any secret societies or occult orders

(Avatar) and which and could

(Avatar) you tell us your the names and your grade within them?

(**Bob Wilson**) That would be telling.

(**Bob Wilson**) Ippsissimus maximus of the Illuminati

(**Bob Wilson**) and toenail of the Head Temple of the High Preithood of Eris Esoteric.

(Avatar) Amusing to the last.

(Peter da Silva) I'm not sure what book this was in, I think maybe "Right Where you are Sitting Now"

(Peter da Silva) you were talking about the possible future of human sexuality. I thought that

(Peter da Silva) the sorts of things you were talking about were rather pedestrian. Were you...

(**Bob Wilson**) Define pedestrian?

(Peter da Silva) Well, you only considered two sexes, to begin with.

(**Bob Wilson**) Oh.

(Sysop Jim) A major oversight, no doubt.

(Rodney) When will the next volume of THE HISTORICAL ILLUMINATUS be out

(Rodney) and will there be more to follow?

(**Bob Wilson**) It will be finnished a year after I finisih writing it

(**Bob Wilson**) There will be five volumes in this series, of course.

(peter) do you think machines will ever be smatrter than people?

(**Bob Wilson**) they're already smarter than some people.

(Sysop Georgia) true!

(peter) Too right!!

(Peter da Silva) Can I be obnoxius some more?

(**Bob Wilson**) Yes.

(Peter da Silva) Back to my previous question/comment/speech/

(Peter da Silva) You didn't seem to get too heavily into the possibilities of bioengineering

(Peter da Silva) as touched on by such people as John Varley (Ophiuchi Hotline, Titan, etc)

(Peter da Silva) have you any more thoughts on the subject now that technology has begun to

(Peter da Silva) catch up on you?

(**Bob Wilson**) I think we can engineer immotal superhuman beings in many dimensions

(**Bob Wilson**) of superiority to us. I hope we can learn to re-engineer ourselves

(**Bob Wilson**) neurologically

(**Bob Wilson**) to become more superhuman than our creations by learning from them.

(Peter da Silva) How about technological immortality?

(**Bob Wilson**) To understand anything, you must be able to make a working model of it

(**Bob Wilson**) The more we model the human brain, not only through bioengineering

(**Bob Wilson**) but through computers , themore we can make better brains for ourselves.

(Peter da Silva) Can't build a working model of a turing machine. We think we understand that.

(Avatar) First - do you think western

(Avatar) civilization will survive

(Avatar) the next century, and what do you think will be the significant events

(Avatar) which will characterize its existance? Second

(Avatar) What do you think of the "magic" energy machine of Joesph Newman

(Sysop Jim) Ah! Glad you asked that one.

(**Bob Wilson**) Just heard of the Newman machine two days ago

(**Bob Wilson**) Too soon to form an opinion.

(Sysop Jim) On the first question then.

(**Bob Wilson**) I think western civilization will survive

(**Bob Wilson**) It will be increasingly like a libertarian, pagan, psionic

(**Bob Wilson**) science fiction novel, probably by me.

(Avatar) thanks

(Sysop Jim) As we say in the old country, Ahlevai.

(Geoff) Hi Bob...

(Geoff) A question about skepticism

(Geoff) As one of the resident skeptics, I've always advocated "keeping your

(Geoff) B.S. detector turned up on high" when investigating

(Geoff) these strange phenomena

(Geoff) my question... what degree of skepticism is appropriate

(Geoff) and when is it time to turn skepticism off?

(**Bob Wilson**) Skepticism should be dialectical

(**Bob Wilson**) doubt A, then doubt NOT A,

(**Bob Wilson**) then doubt both A and NOT A

(**Bob Wilson**) then doubt your own ability to doubt enoough.

(Geoff) GREAT!!

(**Bob Wilson**) Doubt also Doubt

(**Bob Wilson**) itself

(Ben Rowe) A crowley fan, I see.

(**Bob Wilson**) , Experiment with Alternative belief systems,

(**Bob Wilson**) enter alternative, cognitive grids

(**Bob Wilson**) and as the Zen Master said when asked the way of the Tao

(**Bob Wilson**) "Move!".

(Geoff) Thanx, Bob. And welcome to CIS!!!

(Ben Rowe) Bob, one of the perpetual arguments here

(Ben Rowe) is about the degree to which subjective phenomena, such as

(Ben Rowe) the results of magickal invocations, can be usefully

(Ben Rowe) dealt with from a an "objective", scientific viewpoint.

(Ben Rowe) Could you tell us your feelings as to the place of

(Ben Rowe) objective enquiry in such fields?

(**Bob Wilson**) Buddha said, "doubt, and find your own light"

(**Bob Wilson**) ritual is to the inner sciences what experiment is to the outer sciences

(**Bob Wilson**) believe nothing on faith

(**Bob Wilson**) test all things

(**Bob Wilson**) enter every reality tunnel

(**Bob Wilson**) if there are only cannabils inside

(**Bob Wilson**) close the door quickly

(**Bob Wilson**) and move to the next reality tunnel.

(**Bob Wilson**) Fear nothing, never complain

(**Bob Wilson**) Thannx.

(Sysop Jim) "Test all things" Applying what tests?

(Ben Rowe) I take it that means you think science is pretty much useless in that area

(**Bob Wilson**) If the hypothesis gets the result you want

(**Bob Wilson**) tentatively continue the hypothesis

(**Bob Wilson**) If the hypothesis busts

(**Bob Wilson**) make a better hypothesis.

(**Bob Wilson**) As John Lilly says, "science is the Yoga of the West"

(**Bob Wilson**) "Yoga is the science of the East".

(**Bob Wilson**) Do the experiments , watch the results

(**Bob Wilson**) I don't see that that's not scientific.

(Sysop Jim) hmmmm, sounds like good ol' hard scientific method to me.

(Ben Rowe) The problem we run into here seems to be more in finding some basis

(Ben Rowe) to talk about such things. The objectivists wont accept the

(Ben Rowe) "evidence" of the subjectivists such as myself, and vice versa.

(Ben Rowe) any ideas about finding a common ground for this sort of discussion?

(**Bob Wilson**) Objectivists are disciples of Ayn Rand

(**Bob Wilson**) see mmy definition of "disciples" under NEW AGE in religion SIG.

(Ben Rowe) I used the wrong word.

(Ben Rowe) I mean "wedded to objective thinking?

(Ben Rowe) I dunno, I lost track again.

(Peter da Silva) I wish I had your optimism about the future, BOB. I don't see

(Peter da Silva) libertaria any time soon

(Peter da Silva) Can you give any of your thoughts as to *how* it will come about?

(Peter da Silva) (wonder if I can get a straight answer this tim)

(**Bob Wilson**) I will do my part, the part only I can do

(**Bob Wilson**) from my position in space-time

(**Bob Wilson**) I believe others are doing the same thing

(**Bob Wilson**) from their space

(**Bob Wilson**) Do what thou Wilt shall be the Whole of the Law

(Peter da Silva) Sigh...

(Sysop Jim) Peter, these ARE straight answers. Remember, space is curved. Follow up?

(Peter da Silva) Was hoping for a scenario or prediction

(Peter da Silva) not an oath of allegience

(Peter da Silva) Right now the authoritarians seem to be winning

(Peter da Silva) and my position in space time is a bummer.

(**Bob Wilson**) Sorry...

(**Bob Wilson**) you created that reality tunnel

(**Bob Wilson**) you can find your way out...

(**Bob Wilson**) You built the Trap...

(**Bob Wilson**) you know the design

(**Bob Wilson**) better than anyone...

(rich*) Bob, ALL phenomona subjective. Is not search for objectivity

(rich*) really search for means of communicating those that are

(rich*) more subjective than others? Does "science" really have any

(rich*) meaning as an "object/idea" unless applied?

(**Bob Wilson**) Can't understand your terminology

(**Bob Wilson**) Question meaningless

(**Bob Wilson**) in my reality tunnel

(**Bob Wilson**) Try Again!.

(rich*) Everything is subjective

(rich*) Inability to express ideas makes it so,

(rich*) but recourse to science demands

(rich*) communication in terms others understand, no?

(**Bob Wilson**) That means as little to me as everything is green

(**Bob Wilson**) If everything is Green, we still need separate words

(**Bob Wilson**) for the kind of green that looks like Red

(**Bob Wilson**) and the kind of green that looks like blue

(**Bob Wilson**) If everrything is subjective, we still need words

(**Bob Wilson**) for the subjective things that everybody seese

(**Bob Wilson**) the subjective things that only one person sese

(**Bob Wilson**) and the subjective things that you break your leg on,

(**Bob Wilson**) and the subjective thkngs that are called, "the Ballad

(**Bob Wilson**) of the Long Legged Bait"

(Avatar) The model that modern science uses to explain the world

(Avatar) in terms of atoms, mollecules, particles, and fields works quite well

(Avatar) for many things that we do, but is occasionally assaulted

(Avatar) by interesting loopholes like rains of hazel nuts, ancient rocks

(Avatar) containing live frogs, screwups in space and time, etc.

(Avatar) What extensions to conventional science have you found most

(Avatar) effective to enable you to model anomalous events

(Avatar) and could you explain some of them to us?

(**Bob Wilson**) JUNG's theory of synchronicity (psychologically-induced

(**Bob Wilson**) space time relativity)

(**Bob Wilson**) Bell's theorem

(**Bob Wilson**) of non-local hidden variables

(**Bob Wilson**) trancending space-time

(**Bob Wilson**) Persinger's theory of geo-magnetic fluctuations

(**Bob Wilson**) linked to human brain function

(**Bob Wilson**) I wonder if the link works both ways.

(**Bob Wilson**) Edwin Harris Walker "the complete quantum anthropologist (proceedings

(**Bob Wilson**) of the American Anthropological Association,

(**Bob Wilson**) 1974) unifying Bell theorem with psychokinetic experimental

(**Bob Wilson**) results.

(**Bob Wilson**) Garfinkel

(Sysop Jim) How about Gell-Mann's Law? "Extraordinary Claims require Extraordinary Proof"?

(Avatar) Of "Simon and Garfinkel"?

(Sysop Jim) Sorry, GA

(**Bob Wilson**) Garfinkel on reality glossing and Leary on imprinting of reality

(**Bob Wilson**) tunnels

(**Bob Wilson**) not when they become ordinary by repitition

(Sysop Jim) If I may, anecdotal or scientific repetition?

(**Bob Wilson**) Both.

(Robby) xaire!

(Robby) hello to bob and don and the new jersey thelemites and libertarians

(Robby) ddid you hear about the Guiness Heiress kidnapping ?

(Sysop Jim) Do you know what he's talking about, Bob?

(**Bob Wilson**) Tell me all about it!

(Robby) She was kidnapped a few days ago in dublin

(Robby) whiteboys or orange men i dont know

(**Bob Wilson**) I don't know.

(Robby) did you read my 1904 thing?

(**Bob Wilson**) No.

(Robby) 93

(Peter da Silva) Problem with tuning perception of reality is it doesn't get you off the

(Peter da Silva) front lines (unless I'm psychotic & dreaming we're in authoritarian state

(Peter da Silva) while we're in libertarian paraidise. If so, please wake me up). So, please

(Peter da Silva) quit treating me like

(Peter da Silva) parapsychologist at the AAAS & give some indication as to how transition

(Peter da Silva) is to occur.

(Sysop Jim) Ha!

(**Bob Wilson**) Breath normally, eat less sugar... eat foods...

(**Bob Wilson**) get high frequently...

(Peter da Silva) Hey! I quit putting sugar in my coffee already!

(**Bob Wilson**) learn to meditate, stop being afraid and angry...

(**Bob Wilson**) you are surrounded by a network of love. ...

(**Bob Wilson**) take down the bricks, remove the armour...

(**Bob Wilson**) there is nothing to fear. Stop Complaining...

(**Bob Wilson**) have chicken soup once a day...

(Peter da Silva) Do chicken fajitas count?

(Sysop Jim) I hope you're getting all this down, Peter.

(Peter da Silva) In my print buffer.

(Ben Rowe) and eat your spinach and wear your rubbers...

(**Bob Wilson**) Learn to laugh, learn to give...

(**Bob Wilson**) lighten up your act, and remember who made the grass green...

(Peter da Silva) Newton.

(Robby) we all do

(**Bob Wilson**) and who put the insect monsters in your reality tunnel...

(Peter da Silva) Or was that Maxwell?

(Peter da Silva) You did.

(Sysop Jim) and stop asking such tough questions.

(Peter) Do you believe in GOD? ga

(**Bob Wilson**) God is a ridiculously small human concept

(**Bob Wilson**) compared to the coherent intelligence

(**Bob Wilson**) of universe. Everything doesn't need to have

(**Bob Wilson**) a primate Alpha male in charge

(**Bob Wilson**) to be an intelligent system.

(Mark) Can you tell me the formula for AUM (or where to find said formula)?

(**Bob Wilson**) Don't know the laws relating to communication

(**Bob Wilson**) of such information. Don't want the owner

(**Bob Wilson**) of this machine busted.

(Mark) Data source?

(**Bob Wilson**) Who makes the grass green?

(Robby) magick in theory and practice by a.c.

(**Bob Wilson**) Oral Tradition!

(Robby) true

(Sysop Jim) What is AUM?

(Peter da Silva) Ultimate acid.

(**Bob Wilson**) Those who know do not speak...

(Mark) Drug to convert neophobes into neophiles.

(Sysop Jim) I see. hokay, Kaci?

(kaci) dare i digress and ask

(kaci) what persinger's theory of geo flux is??

(**Bob Wilson**) Drug obsolete,

(**Bob Wilson**) electrons are the psychedelics of the 80's

(Peter da Silva) "Turn On, Tune In, Link Up"?

(**Bob Wilson**) And shine like stars....

(Sysop Jim) KAci asked about Persingers theory, Bob.

(**Bob Wilson**) Persinger

(**Bob Wilson**) has found statistical links between geomagnetic cycles

(**Bob Wilson**) and fortean data anomalistics and parapsychology

(**Bob Wilson**) See his space-time transients and unusual events(co-author (kaci) in what kind of perodicity?

(**Bob Wilson**) LAFRENSERIE and brain-mind bulletin circa

(**Bob Wilson**) December 1985... I hope....

(**Bob Wilson**) Anomalistics coorelate with earthquake activity and strong psychic

(**Bob Wilson**) experience with low geomagneticactivity.

(rich*) what physical means is postulated for

(rich*) existance and use of psychic powers/uses?

(**Bob Wilson**) The careless postulate vague psycho-kinetic energies

(**Bob Wilson**) Persinger postulates measurable geomagnetic fields

(**Bob Wilson**) Walker derives psychokinetic effectsfrom basic equations

(**Bob Wilson**) of non-local quantum connectedness.

(ELAD) I have found this discussion interesting.

(ELAD) but, sorry to say...i am not familiar with

(ELAD) mr. wilson''s books

(ELAD) since there was no bio at the beginning

(ELAD) I would appreciate his book listing

(ELAD) and books that he recommends.

(**Bob Wilson**) "This I like"

(**Bob Wilson**) The book of the Breast , sex and drugs

(**Bob Wilson**) Illuminatus!, Cosmic Trigger, The Universe Next Door

(**Bob Wilson**) the Homing Pidgeons, the Trick Top Hat, Neuropolitics

(**Bob Wilson**) Right Where You are Sitting Now, Masks of the Illuminati

(**Bob Wilson**) The Illuminati Papers

(**Bob Wilson**) Prometheus Rising, The Earth Will Shake

(**Bob Wilson**) The Widows Son, and two I'd rather forget.

(Sysop Jim) And numerous issues of Playboy, yes?

(**Bob Wilson**) I only wrote the short editorials on why pot should be legalized

(**Bob Wilson**) abortion should be legalized, victimless crimes should be abolished

(**Bob Wilson**) the draft should be abolished, and a few similar ideas

(**Bob Wilson**) now trite and soon to be conservative. Even Buckley now agrees with me

(**Bob Wilson**) about drugs.

(**Bob Wilson**) remember the Zen Master who said, "move".

(Peter da Silva) Sorry... can't stop asking hard questions... is my role here

(Peter da Silva) 2 questions this time. 1) have you read and if so what do you think of

(Peter da Silva) Julian Jayne's book "The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the

(Peter da Silva) Bicameral Mind". 2) I wish you would write some Science Fiction (where

(Peter da Silva) defined as so:- a SF writer is embarassed by his inconsistencies, a fantasy wrietr

(Peter da Silva) is proud of them). 3) (I lied) Do you really think there *are* psychedelics

(Peter da Silva) of the '80s?

(**Bob Wilson**) Jane's model interesting. So is Stan Gooch in total man.

(**Bob Wilson**) I prefer Pribram hologram model and Leary 8 circuit model.

(Peter da Silva) (of course)

(**Bob Wilson**) Inconsistencies of my books are inconsistencies of quantum

(**Bob Wilson**) mechanics, which is why new scientist magazine called me

(**Bob Wilson**) "most scientific of all science fiction writiers"

(**Bob Wilson**) ... I blush....

(**Bob Wilson**) But facts are facts.

(**Bob Wilson**) Thank you for exchanging electrons, the psychedelics of the 80's.

(Peter da Silva) If these are psychedelics, I'm going back to drugs.

(Sysop Jim) ha!

(Sysop Georgia) ha!

(**Bob Wilson**) Have a high Holiday...

(Robert Wiggins) Bob, I've been readig you for many years (more than 10) now

(Robert Wiggins) (I even have Sex and Drugs in hardcover)

(Robert Wiggins) and wanted to tell you I _still_ go back to read

(Robert Wiggins) "10 Reasons to Get Out of Bed in the Morning"

(Robert Wiggins) that appeared in Oui magazine. My question is

(Robert Wiggins) mundane (but I'm enjoying the conversation here)

(Robert Wiggins) do you know of a place in NYC that carries your books

(Robert Wiggins) (and/or Leary's)

(**Bob Wilson**) Thou art beat

(**Bob Wilson**) Forbidden planet and Laissez Faire books

(**Bob Wilson**) Weisers

(**Bob Wilson**) ga

(Robert Wiggins) Lassez Faire! (sound of hand slapping forehead)

(Robby) are you the BOBO of subgenius fame

(**Bob Wilson**) That would be telling.ga

(Robby) i saw de Selby today he was wearing pink

(**Bob Wilson**) Others said, "he was a pink elf"

(**Bob Wilson**) but he was glad to be there and meet all of you

(Robby) de self-by?

(**Bob Wilson**) I did not invent de Selby. As professor LACKANOOKIE says,

(**Bob Wilson**) "TIJENTIEN, TIEN JEN TAO , de Selby TZU JAN

(**Bob Wilson**) ". Very roughly, the earth creates people, the sky creates earth

(**Bob Wilson**) de Selby became what he always was".

(Peter da Silva) What are the two books you don't

(Peter da Silva) want to remember, and what do you think of

(Peter da Silva) Steve Jackson's game "Illuminati"?

(Sysop Jim) Sheeeeesh, more tough questions!!!

(Peter da Silva) Natch

(**Bob Wilson**) When did you stop eating your wife...

(**Bob Wilson**) ...no wait...

(**Bob Wilson**) When did you stop beating your wife?

(Sysop Jim)

(Peter da Silva) I like the first one better.

(Sysop Georgia) heehee!

(**Bob Wilson**) and was there ever a dog that praised its fleas

(Avatar) OK - I am honored - two quickies

(Avatar) What is your birthdate? and do you believe in Death after Life?

(**Bob Wilson**) January 18th, 1932

(**Bob Wilson**) Death and Life are unscientific

(**Bob Wilson**) concepts, as such

(**Bob Wilson**) All we know is the tuned-in and the not tuned-in

(**Bob Wilson**) The not tuned-in may be tuned in

(Sysop Jim) /TUN DEATH /MON LIFE

(**Bob Wilson**) with the proper technology or neurology

(**Bob Wilson**) We are made out of the debris of exploding stars

(**Bob Wilson**) the not-tuned-in is not non-existent since non-existence

(**Bob Wilson**) is a metaphysical concept operationally stars , people, quarks

(**Bob Wilson**) Tune in, or tune out

(**Bob Wilson**) the dance is eternal

(**Bob Wilson**) LO! The happy moron, he doesn't give a damn

(**Bob Wilson**) I wish I was a moron.... MY GOD!

(**Bob Wilson**) Perhaps i am!

(**Bob Wilson**) Love to All

(**Bob Wilson**) Stop being afraid, Peter

(**Bob Wilson**) Goodnight.

(Peter da Silva) Not in my program.

(Sysop Jim) Quick! Someone get this man a subscription to CIS!

(Sysop Jim) Thank you for a most unforgettable Conference Bob. We hope to be

(Sysop Jim) seeing you here again. GA

(Avatar) This is the most fun I have had in ages - It was better than sex

(Peter da Silva) Your poor wife.

(Sysop Jim) Well, lets not push it, but it was quite enjoyable.

(Sysop Georgia) thanksbob! it was great!

(Robert Wiggins) Thanks, Bob. Good to finally meet you.

(Sysop Georgia) eric we need that transcript.

(Sysop Jim) Seriously, Bob, please do consider becoming a fixture here.

(Eric) I have most but not all

(Eric) was anyone else recording?

(Peter da Silva) Bye Bob. May you live in interesting times.

(Sysop Georgia) for a while

(Sysop Georgia) then he sneaked off.

(Sysop Jim) Thank you all for coming, and for being so orderly.

(Avatar) I have it all in my little ramdisk

(Robert Wiggins) Eric, I have the second half.

(Sysop Jim) the preceding program was brought to you by

(Sysop Jim) the Paranormal Issues section of the Issues Forum.

(Sysop Georgia) wow!

(Eric) My compliments to the G.O.

(Pat Hardy) Bye Bob...good music, good lovers, good games always. Bye.

(Sysop Georgia) avatar can u dump it in dl10?

(Peter da Silva) Orderly? I obviously didn't try hard enough.

(Sysop Jim) Normal conferences held every Sunday at 8PM Eastern.

(Avatar) i hate to say it - but i have never

(Avatar) uploaded before

(Sysop Jim) Executive Producer: Georgia Griffith

(Sysop Georgia) jimwillteach u.

(Sysop Jim) Producer: Bill McLaughlin

(Sysop Jim) Director and Moderator: Jim Speiser

(Sysop Jim) This is Don Pardo, goodnight everyone!

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Note: I'm not sure where this item came from, I recently discovered it sitting in a disused folder at the bottom of an abandoned hard disc, but thanks to whoever sent it.

~Rev. St. Syn, KSC

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10 September 2017

I recall this chat which happened in the LifeSpirit Parsonage living room in Morristown in 1986. The chat used my Commodore 64 on a vacuum tube monitor, no graphic interface.

To the best of my recollection it is an accurate transcript, and so very RAW!

Rev Esnur (Ralph Fucetola JD)

Russ Roberts on reality tunnels

Russ Roberts

He doesn't use the phrase "reality tunnels," but I thought Russ Roberts explored the concept nicely in his piece, "The World Turned Upside Down (and what to do about it)."

Excerpt:

The world is a complex place and it’s hard to know what is going on. So we grope around in the dark trying to make sense of what is happening and what explains what we observe. We manage to convince ourselves that we are seeking the truth and we have found it. Trump is evil or Hillary is evil. Black people are the victims of a conspiracy by white people to oppress them or white people are being marginalized as their majority status dwindles. The country is on the wrong track. (Everyone believes this one). And subtlety is not our strong suit as human beings. We like simple stories without too much nuance.

So we manage to convince ourselves that the evidence speaks so loudly, so emphatically, that we have no choice but to declare our allegiance to a particular tribe as a result of that evidence. The red tribe. Or the blue one. Or the white one. Or the black one. It rarely crosses our minds to notice that causation is probably going the opposite direction — the tribe we are in. 

Roberts is the author of How Adam Smith Can Change Your Life and "co-creator of the Keynes-Hayek rap videos."