tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5887440039323868659.post7168927418775260418..comments2024-03-18T19:18:22.082-07:00Comments on RAWIllumination.net: Cosmic Trigger online reading group, Week 16!Cleveland Okie (Tom Jackson)http://www.blogger.com/profile/07810736442596736041noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5887440039323868659.post-53702028687928163882017-04-06T00:15:07.113-07:002017-04-06T00:15:07.113-07:00mcm bags
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I agree with you that the predictions are not so much wrong as they have not happened as quickly as Leary and RAW thought they would. But I think there's no gainsaying Charles Faris' point in the original blog post that the timetable hasn't worked out. <br /><br />Dustin's comment about technology that he can buy at Walmart offers some balance, I think, to Charles' comment about how capitalism would affect the distribution of life extension technology. The usual path for new technology is that it is expensive and can only be afforded by early adopters, but that it becomes cheaper and available to almost everyone. Cleveland Okie (Tom Jackson)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07810736442596736041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5887440039323868659.post-67261748472237717242016-07-30T07:22:45.316-07:002016-07-30T07:22:45.316-07:00Dustin--the "all sentient beings" notion...Dustin--the "all sentient beings" notion boggles my mind as well--of course it also begs the question of deep identity!<br /><br />Rasa--thanks for the video link--very informative for anyone interested in the topic of life extension.<br /><br />Oz--I'm with you on the "tricks, false appearances, and intelligence tests." Bob also says, in Quantum Psychology," I wrote some nonsense myself in an early book called Cosmic Trigger I: Final Secret of the Illuminati (1987)." That quote is directly referring to Bell's Theorem, and I read somewhere else recently, though I can't recall exactly where, Bob referring to lot's of nonsense in Cosmic Trigger. Of course, if you can't risk nonsense you probably won't come up with anything bold at all, at all.<br /><br />From my perspective, Leary is implicitly saying that once you've mastered Hedonic Engineering there is a further step that can lead to life extension. I'm very interested in your further thoughts on this matter.<br /><br />Great discussion, everyone. Obviously Life Extension is a hot topic!chashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17923105949653410251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5887440039323868659.post-21421284735248981622016-07-29T15:09:43.989-07:002016-07-29T15:09:43.989-07:00should say "69 leitmotiv" in the penulti...should say "69 leitmotiv" in the penultimate paragraph.Oz Fritzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06061222169144560970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5887440039323868659.post-56236878745419901212016-07-29T15:05:04.953-07:002016-07-29T15:05:04.953-07:00Chas - the interpretation of the Allen quote depen...Chas - the interpretation of the Allen quote depends on how you define or represent "I" - "I prefer to achieve immortality by not dying." If defining I as the body, I = the body, then we can agree that the quote backs up physical immortality.<br /><br />I and my body definitely agree that RAW advocated for extending physical life. As I read it, Cosmic Trigger contains tricks, false appearances, and intelligence tests. <br /><br />I can envision two general attitudes to receiving the longevity information - actively or reactively. Someone can react to this data by waiting for a scientist to design a longevity shot or pill. If they have money, they can arrange to cryonically preserve critical body tissue and wait in deep freeze for a future solution. RAW chose to present a gloss of very optimistic longevity research and predictions. Now there appears a shared judgement among some that he failed when these predictions didn't pan out. <br /><br />RAW's gloss includes one reference among the distinguished scientists that appears wishful fantasy when viewed materialistically, the Pauwels and Bergier quote. (p. 123) This flourish of subtle Discordia seems comparable to citing the National Enquirer in a Masters Thesis. The inclusion of a populist occult reference to support rapid physical immortality makes me question how seriously or skeptically RAW himself believed the predictions??<br /><br />Practically speaking, what can the ordinary individual do to extend their life? Waiting for an Immortality Pill hasn't worked yet. Interestingly, the clue seems provided when Wilson has Leary lamenting that some people get stuck at the 5th circuit, Body Rapture, "They have become Hedonic Engineers, and no more." Hedonic Engineering, stage 14 as described in Leary/Wilson's "Game of Life" book, seems exactly the place where an individual can learn techniques to qualitatively and quantitatively extend life. This is the circuit where one begins to acquire bio-chemical mastery over the body and brain. Includes learning about nutrition, yoga, martial arts, wholistic medicine, etc. Learning to control the health and physiology of the body leads to longer and better quality of life.<br /><br />Saying that Hedonic Engineering is where people get stuck regarding longevity when it can be exactly the opposite revisits the 69 leimotiv discussed earlier. The consistent exploration and practice of Hedonic Engineering seems an active response to life extension, intelligence increase and eventual space migration. <br /><br />I have more to say.Oz Fritzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06061222169144560970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5887440039323868659.post-49217879316333297962016-07-28T09:48:54.764-07:002016-07-28T09:48:54.764-07:00I keep reassessing my view on Bob and Tim's id...I keep reassessing my view on Bob and Tim's ideas on immortality. I've been following for some years the work of one of the most convincing proponents, Aubrey de Grey. Do check out this Ted Talk: <a href="https://www.ted.com/talks/aubrey_de_grey_says_we_can_avoid_aging#t-954602" rel="nofollow">https://www.ted.com/talks/aubrey_de_grey_says_we_can_avoid_aging#t-954602</a>Rasahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17352273977312470292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5887440039323868659.post-87455132600311456442016-07-28T06:34:25.059-07:002016-07-28T06:34:25.059-07:00Oz--that bit about some readers--that "is&quo...Oz--that bit about some readers--that "is" a real piece of genius on Bob's part., tying the extended life of the book with extended life of "some readers." Of course, all active readers of the book are "alive" and have not died yet! <br /><br />While I am a fan of conscious immortality--beyond the body--I do read Bob as focusing on immortality in the body. His use of the Woody Allen quote reflects this. His use of the Aldous Huxley story reflects something else. Always multiples with Bob.chashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17923105949653410251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5887440039323868659.post-40171748690107395892016-07-26T16:34:36.267-07:002016-07-26T16:34:36.267-07:00p. 123 The inclusion of Pauwels and Bergier as a r...p. 123 The inclusion of Pauwels and Bergier as a reference for immortality contrasts rather sharply with the other scientific references. "Morning of the Magicians" is full of fantastic, unscientific speculation. By the author's own account: "Let us repeat that there will be a lot of silliness in our book ..." RAW may have included it for the allusion the two book titles make to magic and immortality. A great deal of magick practice concerns the development of an immortal state of consciousness. The Golden Dawn and Crowley freely borrowed from the fragments known as The Egyptian Book of the Dead when writing their rituals. <br /><br />"Perhaps we are even now in the process of building a culture that will know immortality on earth and in heaven..." It seems appropriate for Pauwels and Bergier to say that as it suggests the culture of magick practice. Earlier in CT RAW spoke of experiencing the knowledge of his own immortality. I don't remember the exact page, but wouldn't be surprised if that realization came after a magick experiment of some kind.<br /><br />p.127 Love these names: "Carl Spann put me in touch with another local Immortalist, Paul Segall..."<br /><br />p. 131 "Some readers of this book - the more determined ones - may never die at all." I consider this probable. The book will last a long time. Also, it doesn't predict their bodies will survive. <br /><br />Oz Fritzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06061222169144560970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5887440039323868659.post-34166456434693446442016-07-26T16:00:42.430-07:002016-07-26T16:00:42.430-07:00It seems to me that by reading his poems some of h...It seems to me that by reading his poems some of his consciousness is being transplanted into us.Dustinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12968801826154491945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5887440039323868659.post-43947852358205776102016-07-26T15:25:35.916-07:002016-07-26T15:25:35.916-07:00"transplanting his consciousness into his poe..."transplanting his consciousness into his poems."--immortal consciousness--that's something I can get behind!chashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17923105949653410251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5887440039323868659.post-63854524400547720672016-07-26T14:09:48.651-07:002016-07-26T14:09:48.651-07:00I don't think Bob's prediction on longevit...I don't think Bob's prediction on longevity and space migration have turned out badly. I think the changes have happened more slowly than he anticipated, but the he correctly saw the trends.<br /><br />I find it interesting how Shakespeare wrote a lot about immortality in his sonnets, talking about transplanting his consciousness into his poems.Eric Wagnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04312033917401203598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5887440039323868659.post-4937989302198378222016-07-26T09:38:52.804-07:002016-07-26T09:38:52.804-07:00RAW's predictions on longevity have turned out...RAW's predictions on longevity have turned out badly so far, and his predictions on space travel/space colonization haven't worked out, either, but a lot of people have been wrong about the pace of space travel, including Arthur C. Clarke, who has generally done well with predictions. I've seen discussion about the unexpectedly slow pace of space travel and technology in general from Neal Stephenson, Tyler Cowen and Peter Thiel, among others. I'll probably do a blog post on this. Cleveland Okie (Tom Jackson)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07810736442596736041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5887440039323868659.post-65612553057775914052016-07-25T14:24:30.231-07:002016-07-25T14:24:30.231-07:00Interesting discussion.
It could be that our domi...Interesting discussion.<br /><br />It could be that our dominant economic and scientific models are nearing the end of their lifespan. It might be that we've reached some sort of "peak scientific materialism" and the model is exhausted. <br /><br />In other words, in the same way that the medieval period was somehow systemically incapable of inventing the technology of the industrial revolution, so our model may be proving for longevity research, space habitation et cetera. <br /><br />It could also be that it's <i>impossible</i> to push human lifespan as far as Leary and RAW hoped. I would guess that there is some deep spiritual reason behind it and that our consciousness transcends our physical lifespan. <br />Dirtydiscordiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01135965988969259919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5887440039323868659.post-27390741161106829362016-07-25T14:15:04.208-07:002016-07-25T14:15:04.208-07:00:Should read Resveratrol:Should read ResveratrolDustinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12968801826154491945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5887440039323868659.post-23198524031592339572016-07-25T12:49:51.293-07:002016-07-25T12:49:51.293-07:00I still like to entertain the idea that Wilson and...I still like to entertain the idea that Wilson and Leary were correct in their timelines, but the technology has been suppressed, kind of like Reich or Tesla. However, this doesn't always require a shadowy conspiracy, or a 1% hoarding the secrets, just the regular inefficiency of top down management.....SNAFU!<br /><br />Although, current research seems exciting, for your regular Walmart customer (this is how I measure success, when I can buy it at Walmart) the most exciting pill is reservatol. Not too paradigm shifting for 2016.....<br /><br />My third circuit staggers when considering life extension for the Buddhaful "all sentient beings." I can't imagine the insect and animal populations.Dustinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12968801826154491945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5887440039323868659.post-32256557694033568502016-07-25T12:23:06.412-07:002016-07-25T12:23:06.412-07:00Average lifespan is very different than life expec...Average lifespan is very different than life expectancy. Average lifespan is skewed by infant mortality, war death, accidental death, disease epidemics, etc. The imbedded link goes into that pretty well (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy). Life expectancy for 80 year olds has increased a mere 2-3 years since 1850, .5-1.5 years since Cosmic Trigger was published (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005140.html).chashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17923105949653410251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5887440039323868659.post-6334397722827738342016-07-25T08:50:46.003-07:002016-07-25T08:50:46.003-07:00Lifespan continues to increase. We may live a very...Lifespan continues to increase. We may live a very long time. Average lifespan in the US in 1966: 66.7 male, 73.8 female. Average lifespan in 2016: 78.8. Bob thought things would progress more quickly than they have, but S.M.I2L.E. continues.Eric Wagnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04312033917401203598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5887440039323868659.post-11373708079019301072016-07-25T08:11:18.802-07:002016-07-25T08:11:18.802-07:00The "development" notion is central to t...The "development" notion is central to the work of Gurdjieff, as well.chashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17923105949653410251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5887440039323868659.post-84292137707018335992016-07-25T07:20:50.842-07:002016-07-25T07:20:50.842-07:00The halo around the "T" in travel in the...The halo around the "T" in travel in the illustration on p. 126 reminds me of an Egyptian winged solar disc. Great illustration!<br /><br />p.122 This statement still rings true: "Immortalism," says Carl Spann, an Immortalist activist, is a tremendous step in the evolution of man. It's the development of an immortal state of consciousness ..."<br /><br />Developing an immortal state of consciousness contrasts with many religious beliefs that assume we are automatically endowed with an immortal state of consciousness. Quite coincidentally, I just read Deleuze's take on how Spinoza proposes developing an immortal state of consciousness in his brilliant book "Expressionism in Philosophy".<br /><br />We do have some "chemical control of the aging process."Oz Fritzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06061222169144560970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5887440039323868659.post-32998654944812284072016-07-25T05:17:35.322-07:002016-07-25T05:17:35.322-07:00I doubt that is the case, and i figure that capita...I doubt that is the case, and i figure that capitalism would pretty much insure something along those lines--another good reason to oppose.chashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17923105949653410251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5887440039323868659.post-15987307008099503632016-07-25T02:57:58.001-07:002016-07-25T02:57:58.001-07:00Mack Reynolds wrote a book in which the reason we ...Mack Reynolds wrote a book in which the reason we no longer hear much about immortality is that it worked and the 1% grabbed it. I don't think I believe that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com