tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5887440039323868659.post285232908801964905..comments2024-03-28T14:02:00.871-07:00Comments on RAWIllumination.net: The Widow's Son reading group, Week FiveCleveland Okie (Tom Jackson)http://www.blogger.com/profile/07810736442596736041noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5887440039323868659.post-81435055801549429902019-09-26T16:39:43.333-07:002019-09-26T16:39:43.333-07:00@Rarebit Fiend
Yeah, I backtracked (the fun of re...@Rarebit Fiend<br /><br />Yeah, I backtracked (the fun of re-reading) and stumbled over that early footnote. I suddenly realised that Bob had headed me off at the pass! Doh!<br /><br />But given that Robison and Barruel get referenced in footnotes in Chs 3 & 7, I applied Occam’s Razor when I assumed that references to seditious literature by “Spartacus” in Ch 9 referred to AW. Hey ho.<br /><br />Look in Robison (whose theory directly implicates AW/the Illuminati in fomenting the French Revolution). You will find 87 references to Weishaupt, and 97 references to Spartacus, including a quote in French.<br /><br /><i>Spartacus to Cato, Feb. 6, 1778.</i><br />"Mon but est de faire valoir la raison”. <br /><br />But footnotes never lie or mislead! <b>Peace</b>. And on we go...Alias Bogushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10908752518788179717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5887440039323868659.post-40221000353519756112019-09-26T09:57:16.604-07:002019-09-26T09:57:16.604-07:00@Alias- The reason I've been trying to find a ...@Alias- The reason I've been trying to find a French Spartacus is based on the footnote on pg 11 (Hilaritas edition) "This French "Spartacus" has not been identified, but should not be confused with the contemporary German "Spartacus" who was, of course, Adam Weishaupt, well known to readers of my Immortal Novels and soon to be introduced to new readers as this Romance proceeds. Peace." <br /><br />This could possibly be another subversion but I took it at face value. <br /><br />I never knew about the Dumas novel! That sounds like something I need to read. I did read a biography of Cagliostro that came out a few years ago called "The Masonic Magician." It never seemed to get much attention but I remember enjoying the book. He's already been established to be Sigismundo's half-brother and I think that "Nature's God" indicates eventually there was going to be a climatic reintroduction between the two if the five books had been completed as planned. I believe later in "The Widow's Son" he's revealed to be conspiring with Chartres and others to harass Sigismundo. Rarebit Fiendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09650603980195179414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5887440039323868659.post-53353645488321278532019-09-26T05:25:12.832-07:002019-09-26T05:25:12.832-07:00@Rarebit Fiend
As rumours of Illuminati involveme...@Rarebit Fiend<br /><br />As rumours of Illuminati involvement in The French Revolution abound (Robison, Barruel, etc), and Weishaupt would have been in his early 40s, I assumed that no ‘French’ Spartacus exists, but that Old Bob intended to imply Weishaupt’s involvement, in translation. After all, AW wrote tracts and pamphlets, anti-establishment, anti-Royal, etc. Of course, RAW may have bent the history a bit, to align with Robison’s theories, as no clear proof exists. <br /><br />But if you still think a different Spartacus existed at the same time, and wrote pamphlets, good luck finding them! I found no trace, at all, at all.<br /><br />If you care to dig deeper, you can find free downloads at <a href="https://www.gutenberg.org/" rel="nofollow">The Gutenberg Project</a>, of <br />Nesta Webster <b> Secret Societies and Subversive Movements</b><br />John Robison <b>Proofs of a conspiracy against all the religions and governments of Europe, carried on in the secret meetings of Freemasons, Illuminati and Reading Societies, collected from good authorities.</b><br /><br />And what do you make of this?<br /><br /><i>Did a secret society bring about the French Revolution? In the classic fictional version of this widely believed conspiracy theory, Alexandre Dumas’s novel Joseph Balsamo (sic), a Masonic society known as the Illuminati gather in a ruined castle in 1770 and plot the overthrow of the French monarchy. Their leader, called the “Great Copt,” speaks of the day when “the monarchy is dead…religious domination is despised…social inferiority is extinguished.”</i><br /><br /><i>Features one of the strangest characters in literature, Joseph Balsamo, also known as Cagliostro (later a key figure in the Affair of the Necklace). An alchemist, conspirator, and Freemason, Balsamo figures prominently in the eventual downfall of the French monarchy.</i>Alias Bogushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10908752518788179717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5887440039323868659.post-66022463223445765142019-09-25T18:49:39.725-07:002019-09-25T18:49:39.725-07:00@Tom- I believe it was the other Moore or Higgs wh...@Tom- I believe it was the other Moore or Higgs who pointed out that Somnium is the most erotic novel written without actually containing any sex. I hope you like it, I guess I have a predilection for breast-based books. I have always believed the universe was made for me to suck- Crowley<br /><br />@Alias- Thank you for all the information! This is quite the haul, I love anything to do with Baron Knigge. it is a pity we don't have anything of the French Spartacus available. Despite the Illuminati conspiracy theories surrounding the French Revolution and the Grand Orient Lodge I imagine that Weishaupt had little to do with the political events and the Spartacus at hand would have been very different in style and content. <br /><br />Rarebit Fiendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09650603980195179414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5887440039323868659.post-73879055275851027552019-09-25T09:11:36.272-07:002019-09-25T09:11:36.272-07:00PS: I haven't found any translations of pamphl...PS: I haven't found any translations of pamphlets into French, or I might have a stab at reading them. When I searched the catalogue of the <a href="https://catalogue.bnf.fr/index.do" rel="nofollow">Bibliothèque nationale de France</a> looking for "Weishaupt" I found some texts, but in German only.Alias Bogushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10908752518788179717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5887440039323868659.post-74303483191963563962019-09-24T14:50:19.296-07:002019-09-24T14:50:19.296-07:00I remain astonished at how much detail Bob managed...I remain astonished at how much detail Bob managed to track down, with books, libraries and correspondence – before Wikipedia and Google, etc.<br /><br />Spartacus, as Adam Weishaupt’s nom de plume, brings him into this story indirectly (as Sigismundo does not know about The Bavarian Illuminati). Very little of his writings seem to have got translated from the German, and I can only find a list of books, no examples of the pamphlets. <br /><br />In the Bavarian Illuminati they all used a nom de guerre: Weishaupt=Spartacus; Zwack=Cato; Mirabeau=Arcesilas/Leonidas; Adolph Freiherr Knigge = Philo, etc.<br /><br />A translation exists of <b>“Diogenes’ Lamp, or an Examination of our Present-Day Morality and Enlightenment”</b>, although <a href="http://illuminatifordummies.blogspot.com/2009/02/english-translation-of-illuminati.html" rel="nofollow">it didn’t get a terrific review</a> from Illuminati for Dummies.<br /><br />You can find his disclaimers (<b>“A Brief Justification of My Intentions: Casting Light on the Latest Original Writings”</b>), translated by Tony Page. Recently (2015), a reputedly complete record of the rituals got published in English, <a href="https://www.lewismasonic.co.uk/the-secret-school-of-wisdom-the-authentic-rituals-and-doctrine-of-the-illuminati.htm" rel="nofollow">“The Secret School of Wisdom: the Authentic Rituals and Doctrines of the Illuminati”.</a> “Included are the rituals, regalia, passwords, signs, and symbols of the world's most intriguing secret society”, Arturo de Hoyos, 33°, Grand Cross. <br /><br />It does seem hard to find the pamphlets. You might find some in <b>The Illuminati: Sources and texts on the Enlightenment ideology of the Illuminati Order (1776-1785)</b>, but only if you read German.<br /><i>Weishaupt, Adam, Die Illuminaten : Quellen und Texte zur Aufklärungsideologie des Illuminatenordens (1776-1785) / herausgegeben von Jan Rachold. Berlin : Akademie-Verlag, 1984. 409 p. ; 20 cm. LCCN: 85111344</i><br /><br />Or possibly <b>The Latest Work Of Spartacus And Philo At The Illuminati Order</b> (again, only in German)<br /><i>Weishaupt, Adam, Illuminatenorden. Die neuesten Arbeiten des Spartacus und Philo in dem Illuminaten-Orden jetzt zum erstenmal gedruckt und zur Beherzigung bey gegenwärtigen Zeitläuften herausgeben. [n.p.] 1794. 200, 90, 77 p. 20 cm. LCCN: 77465925.</i><br /><br />Most of what we know comes from ‘enemies’ like Robison and Darruel. Oh, and Nesta Webster, etc.<br /><br />Weishaupt strikes me as a rationalist, and humanist, who had studied Gnostic (direct knowledge) religions, so we might consider him a Deist. Almost certainly anti-Catholic., and pro-Enlightenment (the clue lies in the name). Not sure if he exploited the Freemasonic structures to spread his version of a future plan for self-improvement, and for the world. The cellular structure of cut-outs resembles a spy network, and we see echoes of that in the description of Sartine’s network.Alias Bogushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10908752518788179717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5887440039323868659.post-91844806597363786772019-09-23T08:14:55.221-07:002019-09-23T08:14:55.221-07:00Although we had some apparent digressions, each ch...Although we had some apparent digressions, each chapter had something leading up to this action sequence, in which Sigismundo is attacked by the four ruffians. As I argued in an earlier comment, this is a clever piece of plotting, with the impending action depicted from various points of view. I was happen to see three of them die, but as Gregory says, RAW does an excellent job of making you see that Armand is really not a criminal by preference and is a human being.<br /><br />Sigismundo reacts without consciously knowing what is going on. In more than one place, Neal Stephenson depicts the same phenomena -- in an unexpected situation, it can take the mind a few moments to grasp what is going on. I visited the Flight 93 memorial a few days ago (I am on vacation right now) and it reminded me of when I was in the newsroom at my old newspaper in Lawton, Oklahoma, and the advertising manager turned on the TV set. I didn't grasp at first that I was seeing a terrorist attack on the World Trade Center rather than a terrible accident. <br /><br />By coincidence, I am reading Steve Moore's "Somnium," which takes an obsession with female breasts to a level I've never encountered before. Cleveland Okie (Tom Jackson)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07810736442596736041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5887440039323868659.post-62095737223124816952019-09-22T18:58:43.841-07:002019-09-22T18:58:43.841-07:00@Eric- one of the best jokes in Alan Moore's L...@Eric- one of the best jokes in Alan Moore's League of Extraordinary Gentlemen occurs during the immortal Orlando's summation of their biography where they write about how they narrowly escaped a mass crucifixion due to them being the only person present who apparently wasn't named Spartacus. Thank you for your selection this week, I do love Vivaldi. <br /><br />@Joshua- Thank you, glad you joined the commentariat! This is for you: https://pbfcomics.com/comics/spelling/<br /><br />@Anon- My personal experience of Haitian Voodoo has been overwhelmingly positive. While I can't claim to be much of a scholar, I've spent a lot of my time reading about various religions and would have to say Vodou is probably my favorite living religion. Its history and theology are immaculate and born from a sense of a living, palpable connection between humanity and godhead that is astounding; especially considering the history of its innovators/practitioners. In many ways I feel it bears a striking similarity to the ancestral and magical traditions of my native powwow/Appalachian magic. It is a religion that demands respect but that should be extended to any faith that has determined the world's fate. (At the same time, I'm a hypocrite as I am happy, if not gleeful, to misinterpret/pervert Abrahamic theology to my own purposes. Oh well, fuck 'em.) Truly, all of the syncretic Afro-Caribbean religions are works of pure spiritual art. Blake would have approved if he had known. Also Hoodoo is of incredible practical value, again in my experience. The Haitian Revolution is one of my favorite parts of history, if only because I chronically root for the underdog and love stories of triumph against the fuckin Man. <br /><br />I think you make a great point about the 8-circuits and how deft RAW is at weaving them into the scene for those that have eyes to see. <br /><br />@Oz- which leads into your comment, enlightening as always. I wish I had your explanatory powers. You are exactly on point about the similarity between Schultz's death rap and Armand's. I have Discovering Gurdjieff in the mail. I've got to finish editing Sex Drugs and Magick first though! <br /><br />I'm glad everyone liked the inclusion of the poem, like I said- it's one of my favorites and always bears repeating. For pure will, assuaged of lust for result, is in all ways perfect. Rarebit Fiendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09650603980195179414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5887440039323868659.post-75238913339304850682019-09-22T14:12:35.703-07:002019-09-22T14:12:35.703-07:00 @ Oz Fritz: Very nice comment. Pretty much what I... @ Oz Fritz: Very nice comment. Pretty much what I had in my mind...<br /><br />Ps. Is there a possibiliy to create an account without using Google?<br />PPs. Sorry for my sometimes somewhat cumbersome english expression. ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5887440039323868659.post-83217026119259054432019-09-21T08:07:54.666-07:002019-09-21T08:07:54.666-07:00When Sigismundo gets attacked at the start of Chap...When Sigismundo gets attacked at the start of Chapter 10 his Bio-survival circuit (C1) kicks in and he reacts reflexively with the intelligence of that circuit - what Gurdjieff called the Moving centrum. RAW lets the reader know at least three times that Sigismundo doesn't think about this - he doesn't use C3 initially to defend himself, though does use it to assess the situation. This seems a great example of the different circuits working in harmony toward a particular aim, in this case, saving his life. When he screams "Die" to unnerve the attackers, perhaps this employs C2, the emotional circuit? <br /><br />I posted a final comment in last week's discussion in which I recommended a great Gurdjieff book that goes into the different "brains" of that system - the forerunner of the Leary/Wilson brain circuits model. A point gets made there that the Moving centrum acts much faster than the Intellectual centrum C3, in fact each brain circuit has its own separate time scale. If Sigismundo had to rely on C3 to figure out the situation before acting, he'd probably be dead.<br /><br />The excellent Crowley quote above appears to show how something learned by C3 can get transferred to C1 <br /><br />The gibberish Armand spouts in his final moments seems partly inspired by "The Last Words of Dutch Schultz" by William Burroughs that riffed on the abstract, stream of consciousness dialog Schultz spoke as he lay dying.<br /><br />Nice sleuthing, Greg, on the relationship of Spartacus to the French Revolution - I had no idea.Oz Fritzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06061222169144560970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5887440039323868659.post-77955442697333107462019-09-20T22:28:05.986-07:002019-09-20T22:28:05.986-07:00Thanks for your work. I had some new and interesti...Thanks for your work. I had some new and interesting associations, as always. But that‘s the point of this thing, I guess.<br /><br />I have to check out the haitian revolution. <br />Not speaking from an own perspective of experience, but from other people‘s experiences (such as Grant Morrisons), I‘d like to stay away from Voodoo.<br /><br />I‘ like to highlight another great portrayal of one of the most important RAW themes - at least in my opinion: the eight human circuits. With the dying thugs in this chapter he is heavily indulging in the first basic survival program, describing brilliantly and very intense the bare, naked horror of experiencing the one thing, the ego fears most: annihilation. <br /><br />Sigismundos display of the mastery of the art of fighting show pretty well which perfection is possible if (any) action is executed without the thinking of the egoic mind. When the person „becomes“ the doing. <br />Crowleys poem fits nice here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5887440039323868659.post-32110609142324829892019-09-20T13:50:00.828-07:002019-09-20T13:50:00.828-07:00I love how Bob sneaks in at least one question or ...I love how Bob sneaks in at least one question or point each week that seems to stick in my head all week. This week the winner is the question of how God is going to chose which bloke he likes best if they both light a candle at church? <br /><br />Greg, the passage from The Book of Lies seems to me to be spot on. Nice work!Joshua Hallenbeckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17317144296123869186noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5887440039323868659.post-61829780973465961712019-09-20T11:41:13.524-07:002019-09-20T11:41:13.524-07:00Monday marks the start of fall. Vivaldi’s Autumn f...Monday marks the start of fall. Vivaldi’s Autumn from the Four Seasons provides our soundtrack this week. Eric Wagnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04312033917401203598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5887440039323868659.post-4205517053143424742019-09-20T11:39:46.218-07:002019-09-20T11:39:46.218-07:00I, um, am Spartacus. I, um, am Spartacus. Eric Wagnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04312033917401203598noreply@blogger.com